Michael Erard pens a very complimentary write-up about ChinesePod on Slate.com – ” Why all language podcasts should sound like Chinesepod.”
Mr. Erard compares us with other language podcasts – not just the Mandarin ones. It seems we come out on top by his estimation. I certainly get the impression that he knows a good deal about language and language learning. (He includes a good suggestion that I will take up about translating after Jenny.) He also wrote a very insightful article for Wired last month “The Mandarin offensive“, which I read with great interest at the time. (I also read with dismay that he hadn’t picked up on us in that article!)
This is very encouraging. It may inspire me personally to get back into the swing of the podcasts. Recently I’ve been holding back lest the thought police, er, sorry, the tone police get upset. It doesn’t feel quite right at the moment.
It seems we also have an interview with the Guardian in the next few days.
But there’s one other really interesting development Iwant to share with you, something I think is pretty amazing … later.
Ken Carroll
pretzellogic on 
Andrew Cockerham on 
Dave on
{ 19 comments… read them below or add one }
A good and well deserved review of Chinesepod. I wouldn’t let tone comments put you off either Ken. I think some of Chemisty of the newbie lessons that got me hooked at the start wouldn’t have been there if the podcasts were run by two native speakers.
Ken, I’m glad to hear you’ll get back into the shows. The friendly banter between you and Jenny makes Chinesepod a lot like the morning show that good radio stations offer. It is fun to listen to. Your tones may not be perfect, but the show is fun, and hey- learning should be fun. Perfectionism is not fun.
i’m new to chinesepod cuz i go to englishpod everyday,but i think many of those who have been here to chinesepod will be attracted and come here more often than englishpod. ^_*
Ken,
In fact I think you underestimate us listeners a little bit. It is quite useful to hear Jenny’s perfect tones, and then compare them to your slightly less perfect (I’m being nice). It makes it easier to understand what significates the correct version.
I agree, at least from my perspective at the lower levels, the Jenny/Ken formula gives chinesepod unique appeal. Jenny’s voice is so clear, easy to understand and memorable, and her personality is charming and reassuring. As a learner you want to try harder because Jenny knows you can do it. Her English and cultural understanding is unusually high for a native Chinese teacher, so you can trust what she says, but to ensure a high standard for us she bounces it off a native English speaker as well.
Then we have Ken who, as a native English speaker, stands for the learner in the interaction and ensures that we stay engaged and having fun. His enthusiasm is contagious. He draws us in because he approaches Chinese like we must, from the outside as an English speaker. Ken also brings learning wisdom. He knows what we need to do to learn, and how to make us want to do it, and convinces us that he does without discussing the theory too much.
If that was all, though, it could soon sound like a sales skit or a motivational seminar, with a paid smooth front man to the real teacher. To avoid that, I feel, Ken needs to flaunt his street cred a little.
Demonstrated experience of learning Chinese is essential to give Ken’s role credibility, but the level is not very important. Indeed, the closer he is to the learner’s experience, the greater his ability to proxy for us, to convince is he knows what we need. This is shown by his incidental use of Chinese (relaxed even when imperfect), and experiences when using the language in China. To the extent that the podcast is Ken-centred, it is learner-centred. Can a good swimming coach win a gold medal? No way, but you’d be suspicious if they couldn’t swim at all, and annoyed if they wouldn’t get out of the pool.
You’re missing the next obvious lesson topic series. Ken learning to nail his tones properly. Ken surrounded by all the new hosts, each giving their pronunciation followed by Ken — until he gets it right! Good fun. And then a special tone PDF chart, diagrams, etc… to go with it.
I wish I could tell you how much I enjoy your podcasts. You really have struck a fantastic combination, Ken and Jenny. You two work so well together. Ken’s tones are better than mine, so I can’t complain! I enjoy the friendly banter and the obvious good will. I was listening to some of the early Intermediate lessons and you were talking English too much. More recently you’ve spent most of the time speaking Chinese– which is perfect, for me. The advanced lessons are a bit hard to follow (for me) even though I still listen to them and pick up what I can. Your podcasts are seriously improving my Chinese. THANKS!!!!
Russell, you raise an interesting point for some advanced learners. What happens when you have a great deal of confidence, and discover there is one aspect you’re missing. Do you start back to beginner level to quickly work that part back up to your current overall level, or do you use other methods? Is the process difficult, frustrating, rewarding, unacknowledged? Are there learning resources for these kinds of situations? I’m also thinking of so many Chinese speaking people I’ve met, whose written English was almost as good as mine, but nobody could understand a word of their confident speech, except their old school class mates. That’s a hell of a lot of relearning to do.
KEN – Yah, come out swing’ing Cyoda! We all need a little of that Cpod old’school to re-ignite the spark.
Bottom line I was learning more from old casts and there’s only be one major tweak, tweak it back! It
doesn’t have to be forever, like you said variety is important.
I’m also absolutely convinced that the bridge which the intermediate lessons need to take us to the advanced
level is a third-party in the chatting period (If he/she is from a Beijing suburb…Invite Haruka even!). Don’t
do it in the advanced lessons, that’ll really get them envious! Try some people out, this also doesn’t have to
be forever. Not an interview of them, just 3-people chatting about the dialogue/topic. Let us vote who we
like best!
Hurry, carpe diem! おねがい。快点！
Hi fellow Cpoders. Maybe in this comment thread we could limit it somewhat to supporting and encouraging Ken. We all know from our own learning experiences how important it is sometimes to just hear encouragement rather than criticism, despite good intentions.
But if you want to let it all out, how bout here in the Forums! Topic: Ken and his Chinese
http://wushu.be/ChinesePod/viewtopic.php?p=309#309
My wife and Ireally enjoy the podcast everyday, the content is wonderful and useful. Regarding Ken’s tones we think they are fine. Even among native speakers in any language you will find differences in subtle nuances and clarity.
We feel(and we have been at this for many years) that Ken’s tones are clear. But what makes it work,is the interaction between the two of them (Ken & Jenny)as well as the the practical lessons .
Having various speakers including Ken, prepares the listener for real world situations, and trains the ear to hear.
And really…no one is perfect
Ken, Jenny, and the rest of the staff keep up the good work!
Todd W
Great praise for Chinesepod and the way Ken and Jenny host it in that article! And all well-deserved! Indeed, your approach to language teaching is revolutionary. The talkshow format and the interaction between Ken and Jenny adds a kind of chemistry to the lessons that is unlike anything I’ve ever experienced in language learning. As for effectiveness, let me just use myself as an example. Only three months ago, I knew no chinese whatsoever. I had some motivation for learning it though, because of an upcoming trip through the middle country. If it hadn’t been for Ken and Jenny, I’d probably have given up on trying to learn it. Too hard, too much effort, too much of a chore. But then I listened to the first couple of podcasts and I was immediately hooked. Hell, I’d listen to them for sheer entertainment value. I’ve learned so much from them, that I can now follow most of what is going on in the banter in the intermediate podcasts and if I can’t I will listen to it ten times and use an online dictionary until I can, because I just *need* to know what kind of joke Ken and Jenny are pulling on each other this time or how Ken is pushing Jenny’s buttons by making culturally incorrect remarks about his own lack of modesty. I really love those shows and to be honest, without meaning to say anything negative about the way Liv and Jenny host their lessons, I dread the moment where my chinese improves to the point where I have to listen to a podcast without Ken. (I haven’t listened to the advanced podcasts yet, as I first want to go through the intermediate ones, so I don’t have a basis for an opinion on those shows, I’m sure the girls are doing a great job).
As for the tone police, I don’t think I can stand any more of their remarks, which are as clueless as they are insensitive. I can’t believe that anyone in their right mind seriously believes their chinese will be corrupted by listening to a podcast co-hosted by a non-native speaker. If they’re so afraid that they will pick up improper pronunciation, they should also shut their ears every time one of their classmates speaks chinese to them, hell, they should probably stop listening to themselves as well. Which, by the way, is something everyone who works at, or enjoys listening to, chinesepod, should do as well, because their remarks in no way help improve the show. Rather, if they have led to Ken reducing the amount of podcasts he presents, they’ve actually seriously affected the show in a negative way. The lack of respect that I’ve seen in the last couple of weeks is appalling and perhaps it’s time chinesepod did a podcast about how some people in western countries could learn a lot from the chinese views of respect and not making someone lose face. Actually, strike the part where I said chinese and western, this kind of behaviour is considered impolite, rude and counterproductive anywhere in the world. Shame on you. Bah.
Just thought I’d let you know that I found ChinesePod because of the review on Slate, and it’s great! I’ve been looking for something like it on the web off and on for a while. I’ll be subscribing as soon as I can get my broadband internet connection sorted
.
Indeed. I wake up with Jane and Ken, have breakfast with them and i maybe want more
I just want to say that I really like having Ken as part of the podcasts. There are many reasons. First, Ken and Jenny have good chemistry as student and teacher, boss and worker, and, I think, as real friends. Both of their dictions are amazingly good, and Jenny appears to have a wonderful grasp of English as well as her native Mandarin. Ken’s input on the Linguistic side is valuable as well.
But there’s one point I’d really like to hammer is that having Ken’s tones not always precise is an advantage. In addition to the reasons other people mentioned, I think it’s very valuable to see that even with the incorrect tones sometimes, Jenny has little trouble understanding him, I suppose from context. This is encouraging to us who figure we will probably get the tones wrong often.
Keep up the great work!
Hearing both native and non-native speakers is a plus since most Westerners will make similar mistakes and have similar accents. Some of my classmates focus so intently on tones, the tone of each character being so greatly overexagarated in their speech and also often wrong, it is very difficult to actually hear a sentence being spoken. A sentence just becomes a bunch of isolated sounds.
When a sentence flows more smoothly, even with some incorrect tones, and a native speaker can understand what was said and respond appropriatly, I learn a lot.
IMHO, a world with no criticism at all would be a terrible place. Constructive criticism can help people improve at just about any endeavor. That said, offering a free Chinese service that’s interesting and helpful for so many people is a wonderful thing. I enjoy Ken’s enthusiasm when he gets into the dialogue, and I’m impressed by just how many pods are coming out. I think that as Ken’s tones improve, it will really be a big motivation for the long-time listeners. It’s also neat how much the company listens to input from all the commenters.
Great article! Okay, how ’bout we put to rest any further criticism of Ken and his tones. Ken is very understandable because of context. If he were spouting atonal non sequiturs ad nauseam, that would be another matter. And just how charming would Inspector Clouseau be if spoke English without an accent? Do you have a room…?
I agree with all those above that love CPOD because of the interation of Ken and Jenny. I have listened to many of these lessons over 20 times each, and i still enjoy the banter and enthusiasm.