I finally got to finish The Good Earth, movie version. I mentioned recently that I liked the movie, but wasn’t sure how true to life it was. I guess I have no way of knowing what life was really like in pre-revolutionary China, but to me, the movie seemed believable. Either way, it’s a great story and a classic old movie. I highly recommend it.
One dialog exchange in the movie that I found interesting was this one, between the protagonist, Wang Long, and a man whose daughter may marry Wang Long’s son:
Man: Ah, my ignorant daughter.
Wang: A beautiful girl
Man: She has such a wretched appearance.
Wang: But your daughter is far too good for my son.
Man: You would never condescend to such a marriage.
Wang: I couldn’t presume to look so high. It’s impossible, just impossible… but it might be done.
Man: Indeed, if you would be so good as to consider it in due time.
Wang: I shall think of it night and day.
This is insightful on many levels, not least of which is how it shows traditional attitudes to women and marriage. And it did set me thinking on another level, that is, the level of culture, politeness, face, etc. These days, people are not quite as fawningly polite as in the dialog, but you can still see a great deal of this kind of thing in certain contexts.
The movie prompted an idea for me. I’d like to look at some cultural issues for discussion and relate them to some areas of language study that we’ve never dealt with, for example, sociolinguistics, pragmatism, etc. I believe these things can really broaden our understanding of the language becuase they tell us much about the appropriacy of language in its social context. (They’re also things that really interest me!)
So, why not get started? What are your experiences in the context of face, giving face, saving face, etc, in Chinese culture? Let us know your stories, observations, experiences and we’ll take it from there. Language and culture – now there’s a topic!
Ken Carroll
pretzellogic on 
Andrew Cockerham on 
Dave on
{ 5 comments… read them below or add one }
Interesting conversation. There was no attempt to save face for the daughter, was there. This is the first time I’ve observed a deliberate attempt to make someone lose face.
I wonder whether, in their time and place, the conversation would have been the same had the daughter been present, and if so, would she have clobbered him?
AuntySue,
If I get it right, it is all about giving the daughter face, or at worst, giving them both face by praising the daughter. The difference is that it is much better to let another man praise me (or my daughter) than to praise myself. Try to reread it as the father (successfully) fishing for compliments. They are both taking turns putting themselves (including their own children and families) down.
Throughout Chinese politeness keqi 客气 I see people putting themselves down in the interest of hedging their bets and fishing for compliments. In the last 50 years or so, I also get the impression that it is also considered a little risky to stick out so the real aim is to keep oneself in the middle, so-so, hai keyi 还可以 range. ( Zhongji lesson 52 (chinesepod300_C52_20060731.mp3) talks about that around 4:15.)
About the daughter’s hypothetical reaction, I’d guess she would have just looked down humbly the whole time. I don’t know the movie plot but in so many Chinese movies, kids’ fates are decided by their parents and the kids outwardly show little reaction while inwardly suffering.
Just my thoughts.
Jim
I don’t think there was any attempt to make anyone lose face in the dialog. Women were certainly treated poorly, for sure, but the father wouldn’t public demean her (at least by the standards of that time). In another scene in the movie they talked about how ugly and stupid their (infant) children were, as a way to avoid attracting the attention of evil sprits. (It seems that evil spirits only like pretty children.) Somehow, in China, slagging off your family members is a way to show love! (Women commonly berate their husbands in public.)
Ken
One of my homework assignments in a Chinese language course required me to “invent” a continuation of a Chinese idiom (chengyu) from ancient philosophy. The story was the famous one about the old gentlemen who loses his horse and his philosophy of “Who knows if this is a good thing or a bad thing ?”….(Sai Weng Shi Ma Yan Zhi Fei Fu).
We were asked to continue the story using the “same philosophy”. And so I dreamed up my own clever twist on the story and asked a Chinese friend to translate into Chinese. The Chinese friend remarked that “although my story followed the same philosophical approach, the specific elements of my story definately reflected a Westernized cultural feel to it, despite all the “language being right”.
Incidentally, the “twist” to my story involved the old gentleman’s wife giving him a green hat and running off with another guy and how he responded by “saving face”.
Paul,
There’s an old story in China about an old man who encourages his family and their descendants to move a mountain that was making their lives difficult. The symbolism is obvious and logical – improving your life through dedication, and hard work. But when I first heard the story, I thought it seemd a pretty weird thing to do. Surely it would have been easier to move the house! I guess we have the same in English proverbs – if the early bird catches the worm, then what about the early worm? Either way these are good discussion if you can do them in Chinese – a great topic for speaking practice.
Ken